Organize For Change

Sunday Jan. 15th 3:30pm at UNLV Student Union (MSU) Join with the people of Las Vegas to Organize for Change

A new year has just begun, and we continue to face many challenges to liberate ourselves from the oppressive society that we allow to continue.

War, occupation, and imperialism embody extreme examples of oppression. The occupations and continued wars of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine expose the degree to which imperialist forces are willing to go to control the world's resources. We must stop the systematic killing of innocents by imperialist expansion. People throughout the world are fighting back against this repression, and we are all responsible to join with this struggle for peace and liberation.

After September 11th, 2001, George W. Bush started a "War on Terrorism," with strong support from all branches of the Federal Government that would target the people of the Middle East. Despite the fact that people from around the world joined in the largest global protest in the history of the human race in an attempt to stop the invasion of Iraq before it began, the U.S. government went ahead with its plans anyway. On March 20th, 2003, the U.S. government started the campaign for the illegal invasion of Iraq dubbed "Shock and Awe."

Since that date, invading forces have toppled and replaced the Iraqi government and supplanted it with a multi-national occupying force of imperialist states lead by the U.S. Tens of thousands of (possibly hundreds of thousands) lives have been lost in this war. The U.S. forces the people of Iraq to live in a disorderly, chaotic state. The U.S. has used billions of working-class tax dollars to pay for the war, but the Iraqi people dont see any of the benefits of the occupationcorporations like Bechtel, Halliburton, and Lockhead Martin secure no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq, making billions in the process. You pay for the war, they get the money.

The people of the U.S. are suffering from this social injustice with the lack of funding for public services such as housing, healthcare, education, and food. Our money should be spent on our needs, not on killing.

The fight we face is about more than just the war in Iraq. Iraq is a microcosm of oppressive policies generally. We see the oppression in Israels occupation of Palestine. Israel receives more aid from the U.S. than any other nation in the world. In Afghanistan, one oppressive regime replaced another. When democratically elected, Haitian officials disagreed with the U.S., the U.S. removed them. We are threatening Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, Bolivia, Syria, and Iran. Theses are just a few examples making up a long list. Those that don't support U.S. imperialist policies will be forced to do so.

The division of the working and oppressed classes through racism, sexism, homophobia, and nationalistic pride continues this systematic oppression. These divisions only allow the repression to continue and deny the working and oppressed classes their natural rights to true liberty and freedom.

The problems that the world faces will not just go away, and states will not solve them. States are not moral actors; people are. The solution to these problems will only come through the collective action of the working and oppressed classes of the world.

Over the last year, the people of Las Vegas have been effectively organizing to fight against the oppressive system through public protest, direct action, and conscious-raising activities. The anti-war organization Peace Now was successful in organizing five major protests against the Iraq war and military recruiters. Peace Now was also successful in organizing workshops that addressed the issues of Palestine Right of Return and LGBT Liberation. Food Not Bombs has been providing food to those who are hungry with weekly feed-outs at Circle Park. Project Counter Recruitment has been running a continuous campaign against military recruiters in public schools. The Feminist Discussion Group (FDG) has found great success in galvanizing the feminist movement of Las Vegas through a weekly conscious-raising group. Through the FDG, feminists are organizing a Lady Fest, a festival celebrating women in the arts, which will take place in July of 2006. Another organization, The World Cant Wait, has organized the community to take on the oppressive Bush regime, which had a successful protest on November 2nd. The people have been fighting back and the work needs to continue.

National anti-war organizations are calling for anti-war actions to take place around the country on March 18th, 19th, and 20th. This statement is a call to the people of Las Vegas to begin to organize for these important dates. All individuals that seek to end the oppression of imperialist powers through collective action are welcome to join with this call. Let us join and start a discussion about the world we live in and work together to end oppression. All ideas are welcome, and the more diversity we have the more successful we will be.

Oppression continues because we allow it to. Its time to end it.

Cool! Its nice to know that some people are getting together to do something. I will be there.

Lets Do Something About This!

Just curious- I cannot make meetings due to an over-loaded work schedule. While I must struggle to feed my family, I am still very interested in doing ACTIONS. I can- with enough notice- take a day off to participate in demos, protests, etc.

Would someone of this new group, ORGANIZE FOR CHANGE, please let me know what is in the works?

-social justice crusader

We have posted a new article about the happenings of the meeting.
http://lasvegas.staughton.indypgh.org/news/2006/01/4187.php

Just to make it clear Organize for Change has been adopted as a name to identify this group, but it is not an offical organization at this point. We prefer to discover our points of unity before moving in that direction. We are starting this process by holding a forum on the Iraq War.

Forum on the Iraq War
Jan. 22nd 3:30pm
UNLV Student Union Building (MSU)

So basically what all of you are getting at is that you are protesting against the very people who are giving you the freedom to protest in the first place. Our military is what makes this country so great and all you can do is tuck your tail between you legs and cower down as the real men go off and do the work that none of you are willing to do.
So tell me how has the war effected any of you? It hasn't for the simple fact that we are at war. But it once did, it effected all of us but I guess we've all forgotten about September 11, right? Or no nevermind, you would rather sit back and let something like that happen all over again and kill twice as many americans in one day as the entire war has to date, wouldn't you. Every single one of you are traitors bringing our country back to the state it was after Vietnam. You disgust me. I'm sure you won't even have the balls to send this message out, your content with sitting in your little hippie crowd and protesting in numbers. Of course we all know your cowards and know absolutely nothing about what is really going on in Iraq. Well I do since I've been there twice and I can tell you their economy has grown 10 fold from what it was. There are more jobs, money, and food available now more than ever before but of course none of you would know that and I don't expect you to be smart enough to ask.
I am a corporal in the United States Marine Corps and damn proud of it to. Go ahead and sit back and do nothing with your lives until another chance comes that you can go and follow somebody into a crowd that you know nothing about.

Corporal Le[redacted] A. L[redacted by request]
United Stated Marine Corps
Semper Fidelis

After reading many of your opinions on what you think should be going on. I have come to find myself not only being proud and in continual prayer for the loyal men that serve OUR country,But now I cry for the ignorence of you people that don't have the strength to verbally fight for those men and women that defend and fight for your rights!THE luxury that you have in this COUNTRY based upon those men and women that are stronger than you..And your ways of showing your support is by discrediting all that they stand and fight for.Some people out there don't have that freedom.Thank God that OUR COUNTRY at least still has some men with their heads still in tact.Now you can go about your day,finish your rally, and sleep well knowing that there no bullets flying over your head,your women aren't being raped or brutalized,and your children aren't being murdered.SLEEP WELL
FAITH L[REDACTED]
sister of 3 proud MARINES

Since all too many leftists seem to think that ignoring a problem is enough to make it go away, it appears that, once again, I gotta step up to the plate and put a right-wing fuck in check--so here goes ...

"you are protesting against the very people who are giving you the freedom to protest in the first place. Our military is what makes this country so great"

The Stalinists--and every other military in history, for that matter--always make that claim, so is that what you want, Bubba? A full-on military dictatorship where everyone's obligated to perpetually kiss the ass of anyone in uniform? Does your fragile ego need stroking just that bad? Besides, flexing freedom and protest as one would a muscle is what keeps it alive, NOT some overbloated military-industrial complex.

"how has the war effected any of you?"

Let's see ... Four to five hundred Billion with a 'B' every year going down the military-industrial complex's gullet doesn't leave much for anything else. Ever wonder why there aren't enough jobs for everyone? Well, now you know. And don't bring up welfare or immigration either, 'cause that's about as shortsighted as fighting over crumbs on the floor when there's a big-ass loaf of bread on the table ...

"you would rather sit back and let something like that happen all over again"

What? 9-11? First, Osama bin Laden was a CIA creation, so blame the Agency for that ...

http://www.answers.com/topic/bowling-for-columbine

1980s: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow Muslim terrorists to kill Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan War. CIA gives them $3 billion.

... second, the astronomical odds of yo' ass being anywhere near a 9-11-esque attack is so remote, all that angst of yours would be best spent worrying about far more common threats, such as poverty, polution, police brutality ... that is, unless you're a SPOILED motherfucker ...

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2004/10/28/opinion/fear_no_evil/fearnoevil.txt

... all this machismo is unnecessary. According to the Associated Press, Ralph Nader told his supporters in Philadelphia on 9/11 this year that far more Americans die from poverty and pollution annually than from terrorism. This is why I asked Michael Moore the following at a news conference during his recent visit to UNLV:

"In your book, Dude, Where's My Country?, you write: 'The suicide rate alone means that YOU were a greater danger to yourself than any terrorist.' What would you say to Nevada's many libertarians who don't seem to mind that half of our taxes are going toward a rapacious military-industrial complex?"

Moore responded: "Well, the libertarians are kind of an interesting breed. They're right about 50 percent of the time, and the other 50 percent of the time they should put away whatever they're smoking."

... now back to yo' ass ...

"I've been there twice and I can tell you their economy has grown 10 fold from what it was. There are more jobs, money, and food available now more than ever before"

I'd run all this talk of progress past Amnesty International and Global Exchange looonnnng before I'll ever take YOUR word for it ... but let's assume for a millisecond that you've actually got a germ of truth on your side: Since the CIA created Saddam Hussien in the first place, America's not in any moral position to be in Iraq in the first place. Any improvements the Iraqi people have made have been in SPITE of America, NOT thanks to it.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zepezauer_Mark/Iraq_Boomerang.html

Saddam Hussein first made a name for himself in a CIA-backed assassination attempt against General Abdel Karim Qassim, then in charge of Iraq. In 1958, Qassim had overthrown and executed the unpopular British-backed monarch, King Faisal. The CIA was taken by surprise, and U.S. Ieaders watched in dismay as the Qassim regime pulled out of the pro-Western Baghdad pact, founded the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and asserted Iraq's long-standing claim of sovereignty over Kuwait. Soon the U.S. Iet it be known that it wouldn't mind if Gen. Qassim went to an early grave as well. One of those who answered the call was young Saddam, then a minor officer of the Ba'ath Party.
The assassination attempt was not successful, and Saddam went into exile in Cairo, where he kept in contact with the U.S. embassy. He returned in 1963, when the still-popular Qassim was successfully liquidated in a Ba'athist coup. Saddam and his colleagues quickly went to work on a bloody purge of 700 Iraqi leftists, using hit lists helpfully provided by, who else, the CIA. Over the next dozen years, through a series of murders, purges, and shifting alliances, Saddam worked his way up through the ranks. He became head of security, then vice-president, and finally, in 1979, supreme leader of Iraq.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.

... after funding both sides of the Iraq-Iran war in the '80s and those evil economic sanctions of the '90s, America simply needs to apologize and pull the fuck out with a quickness.

That having been said, I actually like the Marines, but not for the reasons you'd think, corporal ...

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2004/01/05/scorched_earth/fear_no_evil/fearnoevil.txt

The capture of Saddam Hussein is good news only in that he was actually captured and not killed. I'm still in a state of shock and awe that some good ol' boy didn't immediately take his ass out, given the kind of culture a trigger-happy solider was likely raised in.

It's good news because we the people need to think in terms of capturing not murdering. The most powerful among us must be obligated to conduct themselves as the Lone Ranger would -- not the Punisher. Otherwise, we'll never have peace on Earth.

When I interviewed activist C.J. Wilson at Caf� Espresso Roma, upon her return from the Middle East, a young, black Marine who said he was a former special attach� with the U.S. State Department also happened to be there. Being paranoid, I made it a point to get him on tape as well.

His name is Onyango Thompson. And while I couldn't tell if he was a spy or just a vet, I did manage to ask him about non-lethal weaponry.

While training at Camp LeJeune in North Carolina, Thompson told me he worked with "foamy, bubblegum type stuff," after it was used by Marines in Mogadishu, Somalia in 1995 "to keep the crowd back as [troops] pulled out." Thompson said the substance is made up of two chemicals that harden like steel when mixed together.

This is confirmed by Scott Ritter, the former U.N. weapons inspector who wrote Frontier Justice: The Bushwhacking of America.

"[The Marine Corps] used 'sticky-foam' to shut down a crowd of people that was getting ready to storm an area," said Ritter. "You hit them with goo and they sort of get stuck there and they can't move. And then after an hour or so, the foam dissipates and they can start moving again."

Sounds like Spider-Man's web-shooters to me.

I'm not going to get into whether we should've been in Africa. For now, my main point is "sticky-foam" beats the hell out of explaining to a mother that her son ain't coming back home.

In the March 2002 issue of National Defense Magazine, Harold Kennedy wrote: "In the CNN era, an individual's decision to use or not to use deadly force is no longer merely a tactical decision, but strategic one, [Marine Gen. John J.] Sheehan said, because 'the implications of the decision will be immediately broadcast to every capital in the world.'"

... you've got a L-O-T to learn, solider--if you want to get caught up, let me know. Otherwise ...

Fuck baby killers
by remember Fallujah, remember Haditha Thursday March 30, 2006 at 02:42 PM

More evidence surfaces every day of the brutality and attrocities commited by the US armed forces, like Time magazine's recent reports of Marines murdering entire families including women and small children in a fit of anger . . . is that the type of actions that make you proud to be a marine, Mr. L[redacted by request]? Interestingly, it seems obvious that the military would have been happy to cover the actions in Haditha up, but fortunately someone got a copy of a video tape with evidence to Time magazine, so now even the military admits an investigation is warranted. How many more have they successfully covered up, though? How many babies did you slaughter. Corporal?
As for these lies that Iraq is getting better . . . what a fucking joke. The country is on the brink of civil war. Dozens are dying almost daily. That's progress?

Give me a break.
Remember Mai lai, remember Fallujah, remember Haditha.

Blind Patriotism

I am just as American as any of you people who claim patriotism means blind support of a lying president and a bunch corporate advisors whose interests are in profits for the elite and not freedom for the people.

I am a veteran, I saw the mistakes made in Vietnam and cost to our country and to Vietnam, I see those same mistakes being made by a president with a personal agenda today in Iraq. Blindly following a leader who lies to the American people to psyche them up to go to war and sacrifice their working class sons and daughters is not patriotism, it is being mislead by the powerful and becoming pawns of those who will exploit you when you try to find a job.

Fighting in an illegal war in Iraq or Vietnam in way protects my freedoms, it actually creates more anti American attitudes around the world. Bush either lies or is a complete idiot when he claims American troops are dying to bring democracy to Iraq. He wants the oil and profits for Haliburton. Democratic principals are not forced on countries at the point of a gun by occupying foreign military forces.

The war against Iraq and terrorism has already cost freedoms for American people under the Homeland Security Act which is a big stepping stone towards fascism a political philosophy that American troops once fought against.

Fighting an illegal war in Iraq is not fighting for America, is waging war against a small third world country with the military of the strongest military machine in the world in the name of corporate greed not America. Wake up and see what your president is, a coward who used political influence and wealth to avoid going to Southeast Asia when I and my working class brothers went in his place.

Let me ask you great �patriots� what you would do if you had an occupying army sitting on your doorstep? Would you fight them with any means available to you or would you welcome them with open arms like a collaborator?

Our military forces deserve better than to be under the command of a group of cowards and liars, they leaders who don�t send them to die and kill for the sake of corporate greed.
Until that leadership changes I will fight those in power who abuse that power and that is the American way not blind patriotism.

Well, Folks, I've made a liar out of myself yet again, and have returned to the fray.

To those who repeatedly posted the same messages: the American ad industry and Josef Goebbels understood the point of repetition of one's message long before you were even a glimmer in your parents' eyes, and they were far better at you.

You can keep waving the bloody shirt of 9/11 all you like, but the fact is that the Iraq War has about as much to do with fighting Al-Qaida, as a giraffe with a gerbil-not bloody much at all.

You can call those who oppose this current Administration and you cowards, but, it takes a bit more in the way of guts to take an unpopular stance and act on it, than it does to go along with the crowd, or to keep one's mouth shut while crooks, charlatans, and ca-ca heads of various stripes rabbit on and on and on about how our interests dictate this, that or the other invasion, war, atrocity, etc.

You advocate an interesting, yet disgusting, mix of right-wing idealism and quarter-digested real politik, as if you were the latter-day successors to Otto Von Bismarck or Henry Kissinger.

But, you've neither the social position, depth of knowledge, nor persuasive skills to adequately make your case, unlike the gentlemen I've just mentioned.

Mind youl, I think they were rotters all the same, but, at least they knew what they were talking about.

You don't.

Not at all, and it shows, particularly in your extremely quick resort to abuse.

Whether you like it or not, you, I, and just about everyone in this country who's not part of the governing or big business classes are just so many servants and chattels to the former.

At least be honest with yourselves, if not with others, and admit that.

It would be better for you to say that "Well, the Master says this, and he's my Master, so I believe him", rather than rabbit on about "freedom", blah, blah, blah.

Those who scream the loudest about freedom are usually the ones who know the least about it, and who would happily, even orgasmically, deny it to others.

You strike me as being of that sorry breed of humanity.

So much the worse for you.

Am just glad I don't live in the same houise as you.

Saturday, April the 22nd, Nine a.m.
Federal Courthouse, 333 South Las Vegas Blvd.
(the corner of Vegas Blvd. and Bridger)

Right now, Congress is debating new immigration laws that could hurt every immigrant across the United States! It's time for us to stand up and be heard!!

Saturday, April the 22nd, Nine a.m.
Federal Courthouse, 333 South Las Vegas Blvd.
(the corner of Vegas Blvd. and Bridger)

ACORN supports legislation that would:
* Provide a clear path to citizenship
* Contain strong worker protection language
* Help separated families reunite
* Assist undocumented youth pursue higher education

Come to this important march and protest against abusive laws that will hurt our community! The People United Will Never Be Defeated!

Saturday, April the 22nd, Nine a.m.
Federal Courthouse, 333 South Las Vegas Blvd.
(the corner of Vegas Blvd. and Bridger)
FOR MORE INFORMATION, OR A RIDE, CALL ACORN AT 702-891-0060

ACORN is the nation's largest community organization of low- and moderate-income families, with over 175,000 member families across the country. For the past 35 years, ACORN has taken action and won victories on issues like quality affordable housing, living wages for low-wage workers, more investment in our communities from banks and governments and better public schools. We achieve these goals by building community organizations that have the power to win changes--through direct action, negotiation, legislation and voter participation.

Wow saab lofton, you really make me laugh you know that. You really are about as smart as a brick. HAHAHAHA! I dont know where you get all your information from but for future reference if you want to know something skip the Micheal Moore history lessons and ask someone whos actually been there and seen it first hand and please stop putting words in my saying that I rate our military as a dictatorship and placing us next to Stalin. I even overestimated you guys thinking you might have some legitimate reasons for what you do but now I know you are a complete idiot. HAHAHA oh my god man, that would be a new one to me if every had to kiss the ass of someone in uniform, I dont know where you got that one from but again stop putting words in my mouth ok.
And for all of idiots who say the war in Iraq is a personal mission and we are only there to get money then why is it that our country is more in debt now because of it than ever before. But of course you guys are so smart so tell where all the money is that were getting from the war in Iraq and go ahead and be the smart one to talk about were trying to steal there oil then you will really have nothing to argue on since we've been there for 3 years and we have been having record high oil prices, right?
Do you actually think I would expect someone like you to take my word for it that the Iraqi economy is doing better, of course not I know better. But for gods sake stop asking the same people that are saying the same things as you are, if you really want to know something you can first of all the other thousands of people who have been to Iraq and have seen the changes first hand or of course you can stop sitting back and go see for yourself but I know I'm foolish to even think you'll leave your comfort zone. But please if your gonna argue for something stop listening to the media because we all know there 100% truth tellers right! Oh yeah, they dont tell what's going on they tell whatever will make the news to people like you. So again if you really want to see go see for yourself alright and stop taking someone elses word for it. This he said she said thing has got to stop.
Oh yeah and of course your in so deep with the CIA that you know all there secrets right. Go read a back called ' Hunting the Jackal', ask people who actually know the truth and if you can go read history and biography books ok because your just making an ass out or yourself. All of you are.

HAHAHAHA, Osama and Saddam were not CIA creations but you can believe whatever you want and I'm sorry to tell you but their economy is only better because of us forcing it upon them. And you think the war effects you so much because we give the military so much money, god your stupid and I could give a rats ass about people who would rather collect welfare than work.

You all talk so passionately about what you say but you only talk about what you want to believe not what the truth really is.

Oh and bringing up Mai lai just shows how single minded you are and yes I do remember Fallujah and Haditha because believe it or not Oh my God!!! I was actually there so for another time listening to the media or what one of your pot smoking buddies tell you and either find our for yourself or from someone who has been there ok.

And all you idiots might want to actually join the military before you talk about blind patriotism because I'm sorry but this isn't the movies where we are all standing at attention everywhere we go running around to the ridicule of some top brass.

Oh and if your spelling of ' solider' you actually mean soldier then learn how to spell otherwise get it right, the army has soldiers I'm a marine.

And that sticky foam crap has been on the discovery channel since I was a little kid and your absolutely right, why dont we use that? Damn your good, I will go into war with a sticky foam gun and face off against A.) a sniper that can shoot me at a mile out B.) a group of AK-47 toting terrorists or C.) a bomb. I think I would stand a pretty good chance dont you?

It doesn't take guts to talk about what you are since theres thousands of people in the streets protesting everyday, they just follow the crowd.

So please do me and every other american a favor and keep your pole-smokers closed until you have a legitimate arguement alright, thank you. Once again.

yours truly
Cpl Legrand L[redacted by request]
USMC
:)

Dear Bubba aka (Cpl L[redacted by request])

I am glad that "we all" are cheering you up so much.

Please, as a favor to me and anyone who chooses to read your crap. Have someone look over your shoulder and help you out a bit.

If I wanted to help you, I would edit about 50% of your content (as in delete).

You don't win many supporters with such sloppy attacks.
If you don't like people putting words in your mouth I'll directly quote you and then comment in ( ).

For example:
"I dont know where you get all your information"
(its called: research learn about it...)

"legitimate reasons for what you do"

(How about: Our Country got drug into a war nobody wants under false intelligence, Soldier?)

"that our country is more in debt now" (NO SHIT?)

"But of course you guys are so smart so tell where all the money is (Halliburton has it)

"for 3 years and we have been having record high oil prices, right?" (Makes Bush look pretty stupid huh?)

But for gods sake stop (the war in Iraq)

"stop listening to the media" (Heard of freedom of the press?)

"I'm sorry to tell you but their economy is only better" (Civil war is a better economy?)

"god your stupid and I could give a rats ass about people who would rather collect welfare than work"

(That one kinda speaks for itself...)

"they just follow the crowd." (running from the bombing?)

"pole-smokers" (does that mean you're Homophobic?)

(Also, please take note: the abbreviation for: You are is You're)

As in you're a dumb ass...

Best regards,
Apparatus

I am a veteran, I served for 22 years including in Southeast Asia so don't tell me that I have no right to an opinion. As a corporal, I am sure you are not privy to the big picture, I am sure you are not all over Iraq all the time, I am sure that you're experience is limited to specific geographic areas at specific times.

I am also sure the the Iraqi economic and political conditions are briefed to a corporal on a daily basis.

The truth is there for you to see, but you blindly follow the lies that your commander in chief wants you to sacrifice your life for, he could really care less what happens to you so long as his buddies in Haliburton are raking in millions of dollars. Just think about that.

Do you really think that Bush invaded Iraq to bring democracy to the country. Iraq will become a Shite theocracy with strong ties to Iran as a result of an uncalled for invasion and occupation by the U.S. Democracy cannot be forced on a country by an occupying force. The elected government in Iraq has done nothing since being elected.

The peace movement wants the G.I.'s home safely, which is more than those military avoiders Bush and Cheney care about you. They are willing to send you to die when they werem't willing to put their own lives at risk during Vietnam and you don't see any of their elitist friends sons or daughters serving in those war zones.

My son served in Afghanistan and is on the list to go to Iraq now, I resent Bush sending him but not his protected daughters.

If you really believe you are protecting America in Iraq, one day I hope your eyes are openned before it's too late.

"HAHAHAHA, Osama and Saddam were not CIA creations but you can believe whatever you want and I'm sorry to tell you but their economy is only better because of us forcing it upon them. And you think the war effects you so much because we give the military so much money, god your stupid and I could give a rats ass about people who would rather collect welfare than work."
--Cpl Legrand L[redacted by request]

Lickshit, or whatever your name is, yo' ass would be right at home in the letters section of the Las Vegas CityLife ...

http://www.lasvegascitylife.com/articles/2004/03/31/letters/letters.txt

Mr. Lofton states that if you're unemployed and in debt, the capture of Osama bin Laden shouldn't impress you much because our economy is in shambles. Let's suppose the government takes his advice and abandons its war on terror, and uses money earmarked for protection of our nation simply to give a handout to every person who feels it's his due. Imagine what our economy will be like when al-Qaida and every other terrorist organization realizes that they can destroy our country without fear of reprisal.
--DAVID M. RYDER
LAS VEGAS

... I've heard it all before; the same, tired technique used by stuck-up pricks everywhere of trying to come across as if you actually know something just because you were on the front line. SO FUCKING WHAT? If you want proof that bin Laden and Hussein were CIA creations, do your homework, do your research--do you really think Michael Moore is the only person on the planet who's ever said this? Do you have any fucking idea how many scholars and professors and reporters have gone over this shit a million times? Is something a conspiracy theory simply because YOU said so? Who the fuck are you?!

Of course, it's kind of hard to do any research--or even read a book--when you're too busy killing people because YOU WERE THERE! Oh, I'm, like, sooo impressed! And for you to insult the prospect of using non-lethal weaponry just goes to show that you're no fucking better than the motherfuckers you're so sickeningly proud to be shooting at!

Let me end with this before I really get pissed off: I would in fact "rather collect welfare than work" IF "work" meant slingin' burgers as opposed to doing what God blessed me to do--and if that means yo' sorry ass can't afford to play GI Joe anymore, then guess what? You can kiss the blackest part of my ass!

Thank you, Dave Peter, for the following ...

"As a corporal, I am sure you are not privy to the big picture, I am sure you are not all over Iraq all the time, I am sure that you're experience is limited to specific geographic areas at specific times.

"I am also sure the the Iraqi economic and political conditions are briefed to a CORPORAL on a daily basis."

By the way, that last line was sarcastic ...

Oh, and since no doubt still looking for chickenshit-ass excuses not to believe the truth, BE-fucking-HOLD:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 1998 — At the CIA, it happens often enough to have a code name: Blowback. Simply defined, this is the term that describes an agent, an operative or an operation that has turned on its creators. Osama bin Laden, our new public enemy Number 1, is the personification of blowback. And the fact that he is viewed as a hero by millions in the Islamic world proves again the old adage: Reap what you sow ...

Yet the CIA, concerned about the factionalism of Afghanistan made famous by Rudyard Kipling, found that Arab zealots who flocked to aid the Afghans were easier to “read” than the rivalry-ridden natives. While the Arab volunteers might well prove troublesome later, the agency reasoned, they at least were one-dimensionally anti-Soviet for now. So bin Laden, along with a small group of Islamic militants from Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian refugee camps all over the Middle East, became the “reliable” partners of the CIA in its war against Moscow.

THE AFOREMENTIONED was written by Michael Moran of MSNBC, and while I'm sure the name "Michael Moran" sounds too much like Michael MOORE for your simpleminded, Neanderthal tastes, the fact of the matter is there's MORE ...

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?010924fr_archive03

Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was born in 1955, the youngest of some twenty surviving sons of one of Saudi Arabia's wealthiest and most prominent families. He is part puritanical Wahhabi, the dominant school of Islam in Saudi Arabia, yet at one time he may have led a very liberated social life. He is part feudal Saudi, an aristocrat who, from time to time, would retreat with his father to the desert and live in a tent. And he is of a Saudi generation that came of age during the rise of OPEC, with the extraordinary wealth that accompanied it: a generation whose religious fervor or political zeal, complemented by government airline tickets, led thousands to fight a war in a distant Muslim land. That Pan-Islamic effort, whose fighters were funded, armed, and trained by the C.I.A., eventually brought some twenty-five thousand Islamic militants, from more than fifty countries, to combat the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. The United States, intentionally or not, had launched Pan-Islam's first jihad, or holy war, in eight centuries ...

The C.I.A. station chief in Pakistan from 1986 to 1989 was Milt Bearden, an avuncular, barrel-chested man with an easy smile. He arrived with the first shipments of Stinger missiles that Washington dispatched to the combatants, and he spent a good deal of time in the mountains with the resistance groups. Not long ago, I asked Bearden, who is now retired, if he had known bin Laden during the war years.

"No," he replied. "Did I know that he was out there? Yes, I did, but did I say that this tall, slim, ascetic Saudi was instrumental? No, I did not. There were a lot of bin Ladens who came to do jihad, and they unburdened us a lot. These guys were bringing in up to twenty to twenty-five million dollars a month from other Saudis and Gulf Arabs to underwrite the war. And that is a lot of money. It's an extra two hundred to three hundred million dollars a year. And this is what bin Laden did. He spent most of the war as a fund-raiser, in Peshawar. He was not a valiant warrior on the battlefield."

I LOVE IT: "There were a lot of bin Ladens who came to do jihad ..." So who knows how many nutcases the CIA funded; who knows how many Frankenstein monsters were created ...

Let's see, that's MSNBC, the New Yorker, two of the most respected news sources on the fucking planet ... what do you have, Bubba? FOX News denying the obvious like a skinhead denying the Holocaust?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418038/

http://www.outfoxed.org/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,98115,00.html

Why is this myth of CIA support for bin Laden so persistent? Some find the myth persuasive because they do not know that America and Saudi Arabia funded two different sets of anti-Soviet fighters. Others on the anti-American left and right, in both Europe and America, find it oddly comforting. It gives solace to those who want to think the worst of us. The CIA-funding myth allows them to return to a familiar pattern, to blame America first. Whatever the cause, this myth weakens America’s case for the war on terror by setting up a moral equivalency between America and Al Qaeda (search). This animates protests at home and makes it harder to win allies abroad.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT: The fear that something ... ANYthing "weakens America’s case for the war" ... ANY war ...

http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/farewell.htm

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

(Farewell Radio and Television Address to the American People by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, January 17, 1961)

http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=3543

The immediate cost of the war is only a small fraction of the obscene amount the British government spends on "defence" - preparing for war. Under New Labour Britain's military spending has just had its biggest increase for 20 years. Even before the war in Iraq it had risen to �33 billion a year. Imagine what could be done in just four years with that money instead.

Year one: build 200 fully equipped new hospitals.

Year two: build five new primary schools in every parliamentary constituency in Britain AND build over a million new, decent and affordable council homes.

Year three: a pensioners package giving each a �250 lump sum plus free TV, telephone and heating AND put �5 billion investment into a decent public transport system.

Year four: build a national network of 10,000 new nurseries and childcare centres, with free childcare places for those who use them, as well as continuing the free TV, telephone and heating for pensioners.

And over those four years that would still leave at least �20 billion to put into tackling global problems of poverty, clean water and killer diseases like AIDS and TB.

Bush and Blair talk of tackling global problems. But they won't use the money spent on war to solve them. Everyone I the world could have food and basic health and education services if the war budgets were used to help people.

The United Nations Unesco organisation says it would take around �3.5 billion a year to educate the 115 million children in the world now denied any education at all. That is the same as the money set aside this year for war by Britain's Gordon Brown.

The cost of just two of the cruise missiles launched by the US on Baghdad could feed 270,000 desperately hungry people in Angola for a month. The minimum �65 billion US war spending could pay the entire budget of the United Nations Unicef children's emergency fund for the next 80 years, or fund the World Health Organisation's budget for the next two centuries. The United Nations Human Development Report estimates what it would cost to give a basic minimum income and provide basic services such as water, health, housing and education to all the world's people.

Just two years of this military budget would be enough to eradicate global poverty and give everyone in the world a basic living standard. What prevents that is not lack of resources, but a system based on profit and on war.

Cpl,

perhaps you should ask your "boss" to replace you with someone who is better at propoganda?

Preferably someone who drinks less beer
and is not a racist.

You're making the Marines look bad. (again)

Best regards,
Apparatus

Thanks, Lofton, for the MSNBC links in your last response.

One thing that Mr. Moran didn't mention in his article, or at least the excerpts you posted here, which is the role that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence(ISI) played during the Afghan War.

For those of you out there un-familliar with recent Pakistani history, in 1980, General Zia Al-Haq seized power in that country after deposing the Prime Minister in a military coup 'd etat.

Zia was both an anti-Communist and a Muslim fundamentalist, and he, along with much of the Pakistani establishment of that time, was worried about a possible Soviet thrust, once the situation on the ground in Afghanistan had been settled in the Soviets' favour, to the Indian Ocean(warm-water ports and all that, y'know).

So, it's kinda a no-brainer to see where this would end up heading.

Because the CIA, along with British Intelligence, the Saudis and the Chinese, who were, and still are, Pakistan's biggest ally, really didn't have that much of a clue as to who was who in the Afghan mujahideen, at least early on the game, they decided to rely on ISI for info about the mujahideen, and to funnel money and arms to various mujahideen factions through that agency.

Well, Zia and ISI, seeing an advantage to spread and secure Pakistani influence in Afghanistan, plus creating a solidly fundamentalist Muslim state in that country after the Soviets and Afghan Communists were kicked out, began funnelling the money and arms under their control to factions like Hizbollah(No, not the Lebanese Shiite Hizbollah, rather an Afghan mujahideen organisation of the same name), led by an Afghan fundamentalist named Gulbuldeen Hekmatyar, among others.

The Boys and Girls at the CIA, along with their masters in Washington at the time, didn't really terribly mind what the ISI was doing all that much, because, in their view, the more fanatically fundamentalist the mujahideen faction, the harder it would supposedly fight.

Well, after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1988, and especially after the end of the Soviet Union four years later, the Americans, British, Saudis and Chinese rather lost interest in Afghanistan, as it, like the now-defunct Soviet Union, was yesterday's news, fit only for fish-wrap.

This wasn't so for Pakistan, and the ISI in particular.

While Zia Al-Haq was, by this time, quite dead(being in a plane crash will do that to one), the ISI was still on the job.

In the interregnum(1992-1996)that followed both the falls of the Soviet Union and Afghan Communist government, Afghan politics can pretty much be described as a violent game of musical chairs, with one mujahideen faction, supported by either Pakistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Iran or Russia, kicking each other out of power in Kabul, while what was left on the Afghan intrastructure, already badly damaged by the anti-Soviet war, fell apart.

Into this breach stepped, in 1996, the Taliban, which was composed of, at the rank-and-file level mainly, Afghan refugees who'd spent their childhood and teen-age years in refugee camps with little to do, besides attend classes at fundamentalist madrasses, marched into Afghanistan, with the help, yet again, of the ISI.

By the way, during the Taliban's march to power, and after it took over most of Afghanistan(never did get the whole enchillada), ISI personnel, along with seconded Pakistani Army officers, acted as military advisers to the Taliban leadership, while its ranks were considerably puffed up by the large numbers of "ordinary" Pakistanis who'd gone to Afghanistan to make a little jihad, albeit against fellow Muslims.

In fact, the Pakistanis, out of all of the various foreigners who fought for the Taliban, made up the largest number in the Taliban forces.

Al-Qaida may have had more money and fame, but the Pakistanis rather out-numbered them.

And, in the end, it would be to the mountains of Southeastern Afghanistan and Northwestern Pakistan that the Taliban and Al-Qaida would retreat in the wake of the American invasion of Afghanistan in late 2001-early 2002.

While shorn(at least officially) of any ISI and Pakistani government support, the Taliban(most of whom belong to the same ethnic group as many of the Pakistani North West Frontier Tribal Trust Territories' inhabitants)and Al-Qaida have managed, with the support of the local people, to set up bases, re-build their forces, and to make life Bloody Hell for the Americans, assorted NATO forces, and Afghan government forces, especially in Southeastern Afghanistan.

It's also kinda ironic that now, the Pervez Musharraf government in Pakistan, even though it's removed some of the high-ranknig backers of the Taliban from the ISI, finds itself fighting the organisation, along with Pakistani fundamentalist parties, that its immediate predecessors helped create and maintain for so long, as an ally in America's "War on Terror".

That's why, whenever I hear anyone say just how good, solid and important an ally Pakistani is to us in our campaign against Al-Qaida and the Taliban, I have to snicker.

A pity, really, 'cos the Afghan, Pakistani and American peoples deserve far better than they've got from their governing classes over the past 27 years.